How To Reverse Down A Hill

May 27th, 2014,06:24 AM

Hi all. First mail service. Total beginner here. Very impressed with the amount of cognition and feel and then generously shared in this forum.

Bought a 2005 LJ Rubicon 4.0L, auto trans 42RLE, NV241 four:i t-instance, 4.10 gears, front and rear lockers (all very stock Rubi stuff), in Jan in guild to wean myself off a life time of being a clay biker. Getting old and the trunk but does not want to tolerate the aches and pains of riding anymore.

Anyways, love learning this new sport and can certainly see why people get addicted to it!

Question: other than turning around on a safe section and driving back down, what is the all-time technique for backing down a loma (later on a failed attempt) with an auto trans when one has no other choice but to back information technology downward?

The reason I enquire is the other day I tried to completely cease my jeep (just to become my bearings) while backing down a moderate hill (easy to moderate blue) while in opposite and in 4 low.

(Did not need 4 low just am practicing to go as much seat time as possible for the harder stuff in the time to come)

While having stock discs on all 4 wheels, I still could non make the jeep come to a complete stop while really cranking on the brake pedal. Had to put it into neutral to stop information technology.

Obviously, the pull of the downhill likewise as the low gearing of the T case/4 low while in reverse wanted to keep pulling the jeep down the hill.

I had heard people upgrade the discs for better stopping power but not ready to do that.

It just seemed that with reverse non existence that low equally far as gearing goes (unlike 1st gear), it would seem to me that the 4 bicycle discs should have been enough to completely finish me. Even in 4 low.

I know that in 4 depression and 1st gear, I need to push actress hard on the brakes to go on the jeep from crawling frontward as i come to a stop on level ground. I figured that it is just one of the those things of having a actually depression geared T example/4 low and being in 1st gear. And that'southward why it crawls and so well up technical sections and hills.

What concerns me is then later on that day, I went up a fairly steep colina (maybe a mod to hard blue - 5 or 6). So zero actually extreme. But beingness a newbie, seemed pretty steep to me. Certainly would not take wanted to back down information technology.

Anyways, I was non able to brand information technology to the superlative due to poor line choice and driver fault/inexperience. Luckily there was a safe place to turn around (something I similar to look out for merely in instance I need it), and so turned around and headed back down. No problems.

It got me thinking. What if I would have had to back downwards that hill? I know the goal is not to actually stop on the hill and simply use the engine to boring me down as I back downward.

But what if I wanted to go slower (not really end) than the speed that reverse/4 low dictated due to a technical section coming up as I went down the hill?

Or even actually finish if I wanted to check out the technical section for line selection?

The previous experience revealed my Jeep'due south evidently stock brake limitations. And on the street, I thought the Jeep's brakes worked really pretty practiced compared to my other cars. All the same do.

But obviously hills present a much more than challenging situation and therefore revealed my brakes limitations while in reverse and 4 low.

Does anyone accept whatever thoughts on how best to approach this obstruction?

My Current Solution? - My idea (not certain though) is to back downwards in reverse in 4 depression and if I demand to go even slower, put it into neutral, get my speed nether control and then get back to contrary and let the engine slow me down as I continue on down the hill. And use the brakes merely as needed (lightly) and then every bit to not lock up the tires (to avoid getting sideways) and to save them.

This is all new to me so whatsoever thoughts would be greatly appreciated?

BTW, did I miss seeing a category for 4x4 driving technique for this forum? If and so, delight feel costless to move it.

Thanks so much!

May 27th, 2014,06:54 AM

I don't necessarily think information technology'due south the 'correct' way to do information technology. But with a manual trans on some very steep or sketch stuff, I'll place the trans in start, using the brakes to slow jeep and if it speeds up as well much I'll skid the clutch to foreclose it from getting away from me. Kinda difficult on driveline parts, but it beats rolling out of control downward hill. I attempt to keep backing to a minimum though as nil is easier lol. HTH

May 27th, 2014,07:43 AM

Is your vehicle stock or modified? The brakes should stop it while in contrary and 4lo. Personally I would never shift into neutral while on a hill, especially going backwards.

Maybe your brakes need some piece of work, including fresh fluid.

May 27th, 2014,08:15 AM

2005 4 speed car? If information technology's the 42RLE trans, 1st gear is 2.84 and reverse is 2.21, so reverse is pretty depression and shouldn't allow much speed.

Like newracer said, I'd exist wary of neutral, every bit well- yous lose all command if your foot slips off the brake pedal.

In reverse, y'all might desire to do and figure out only how fast it'll move in opposite with no brakes applied- find a medium steepness hill and back downwardly, only let your human foot off the brake and see just how fast information technology'll motility backwards. Likewise, call back that when backing down a loma, all the weight is on the rear tires, non the fronts, so it's the opposite of stopping on the street.

I'm having a hard time agreement how your brakes won't finish you in reverse, tho. That's not normal.

Your stock arrangement is definitely biased towards the fronts having more stopping power. Yous might too want to experiment with using your hand brake (bold it activates only the rears)- would be like using the forepart brake on a motorbike- much more constructive.

Neutral is about your worst choice, tho. I slip and downwards you lot go.

May 27th, 2014,08:16 AM

I take a 350 Chevy w/700R4 in my CJ and despite a brake upgrade the engine can override my brakes in reverse (especially backing downhill). I usually effort to permit gravity do its matter and only use reverse if something stops me. And if I take to use reverse I become ready to go back to neutral.

Edit: I would similar to know how reverse is any worse than neutral when backing down a colina.

May 27th, 2014,08:34 AM

My 06 Rubicon is the same mode and my technique is what you described. I just permit it button through the brakes and when information technology'due south time to stop pop in neutral real quick and and then back to drive. Information technology does this due west/ black magic pads in the front and EBC yellows in the rear so I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to upgrade your pads.

May 27th, 2014,09:33 AM

I besides had the same issue when I went to 4.56 in the axles and 4:1 in the t-example. It would merely drive through the brakes on hills. I started with manual brakes then jumped to vacuum heave and eventually landed with hydro assist. I can't believe how awesome the hydro assist is, with just a fraction of the pedal effort I can terminate the rig and I tin can lock all 4 tires up if needed no matter what gear or hill I'g on.

While a "big" restriction kit is always overnice it comes with a few issues such equally wheel and steering component fitment issues. Just calculation more line pressure to the stock brakes was all I needed.

I used a kit from vanco. While I know many others have source parts for less money they take all the guess work out of information technology for you.

http://www.vancopbs.com/

May 27th, 2014,09:44 AM

I take the same issue and I have the same tranny, 42RLE, 3.73 gears and rear disc brakes - it'southward even worse for me because I have the 2.73:1 t-case. The brakes volition not cease it in gear. It'southward hard to even become slow.
Going forward down a steep colina like Cerise Cone is a large fight between the tranny and the brakes. I really need to regear to 4.88.
Jim

May 27th, 2014,12:02 PM

With a iv-1 t-case and stock converter this is typical. Air in the system volition make it worse. Personally I would bite the bullet and convert to hydroboost brakes if you're going to off road much. Accept a await at www.Vancopbs.com.

As far as technique lookout some of the youtube videos of guys unsuccessfully backing down white potato salad hill in Moab. Hint - the central is letting the vehicle scroll instead of slide down.

May 27th, 2014,12:05 PM

Quote Originally Posted past otisdog View Post

I have the same event and I have the aforementioned tranny, 42RLE, 3.73 gears and rear disc brakes - it's even worse for me considering I have the 2.73:1 t-case. The brakes will not stop it in gear. It's difficult to even go slow.
Going frontwards down a steep hill like Red Cone is a big fight between the tranny and the brakes. I actually need to regear to 4.88.
Jim

The lower the gearing in the drivetrain the more a vehicle will tend to push through the brakes.

May 27th, 2014,02:05 PM

Quote Originally Posted past scottycards View Post

2005 4 speed auto? If it'south the 42RLE trans, 1st gear is ii.84 and reverse is 2.21, then contrary is pretty low and shouldn't let much speed.

.

Every bit far as auto's go ii.21:1 reverse gear is a very high gear ratio.My auto has 3:one 1st and 3:1 contrary and accept to give it gas to go downwards most hills,no brakes actually needed with 5.13'southward,4.three:1 Atlas and 35" tires.

May 27th, 2014,02:30 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post

The lower the gearing in the drivetrain the more a vehicle will tend to push through the brakes.

Yes...but with lower gearing the rig will move slower and you won't need to brake as much if at all in these situations.

I approximate this stuff is why I similar my manual manual rigs and/or dual t-cases/lower gearing. In double low reverse, I can definitely go equally slow as I want without using the brakes at all.

The other route to look into, and not being a Jeep owner I'k not certain if its available, is to run into if in that location are any programmers for your manual that will fix how the torque converter locks/unlocks. It sounds like the main upshot is that it is staying locked longer then you lot would similar, so if its possible to soften the threshold where that happens then it might exist worth it.

May 27th, 2014,05:32 PM

What josh said. By and large, when travelling downwardly loma (doesn't affair if you are going frontward or backwards), you lot should merely let the truck idle it self forth. About automatics first gear and reverse are like ratio'southward. If first is even lower then information technology should be even less of a problem. I think it probably felt uncomfortable only try to get use to travelling in low with out using the brakes.

May 27th, 2014,06:56 PM

Interesting note-
In 4low the drive train should lock together the forepart and rear axles minus whatever bulldoze line "windup" provided it is a conventional diver railroad train and does not take a viscus coupling or the such.

Thus E-restriction works on all iv and forepart brake toque is added to rear brake torque for a total braking torque that is available to all wheels. So direction should exist irreverent in a vehicle with 4 wheel deejay brakes. We could get into the slight departure in drum brakes when bankroll up just that is irrelevant and outside the scope of this discussion. Provided the transmission ratio was the same in 1st and R the drive train would not car if yous went frontwards or backward down the hill.

From the stand point of the brakes locking up, it gets more than complicated. If it were a rectangular box of uniform density with no pause it wouldn't affair which direction information technology was traveling. Since they don't build boxes on wheels with potent leaf springs anymore, any possible combination of CG location, length, wheelbase, bound rate, suspension travel, spring rate, tire stiffness may affect the effect. In other words tire lock up is vehicle specific.

It is as well possible to not have plenty engine braking capacity to deadening the vehicle down and it will "run away." Information technology happens especially to depression(numerically) geared vehicles. In that example good brakes are still the only option merely the engine is still trying to slow the vehicle downward and I would not put it in neutral. The only fourth dimension that it should exist fighting the brakes with the throttle airtight is when the speed is reduced to below idle in a manual or "stall" speed of the torque converter in an automatic and the engine is driving instead of existence spun past the drive line. In that the low geared vehicle, the "idle" speed may be faster than you lot want to be going (ie -10mph). In which case exist careful and merely utilize the brakes in short bursts merely non enough to lock the tires. They practice more good using "static" friction(rolling) that they practice with dynamic friction (sliding). It is entirely possible to overheat brakes trying to coming downwardly loma slowly without proper gearing/transmission transmission.

Just practice what your doing and try dissimilar methods on a safe, like shooting fish in a barrel obstacle and see what works best for your vehicle.

May 27th, 2014,07:43 PM

Quote Originally Posted by GM4X4LOVER View Post

What josh said. Generally, when travelling downwards hill (doesn't matter if you are going frontwards or backwards), yous should but let the truck idle information technology self along. Most automatics offset gear and reverse are like ratio'south. If first is even lower then information technology should be fifty-fifty less of a problem. I think it probably felt uncomfortable only effort to get apply to travelling in depression with out using the brakes.

Hold, but I think OP'southward concern is not beingness able to stop at all. Which is sometimes very necessary. Like right before a tire drops further into a rig toppling hole.

May 28th, 2014,12:03 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post

I recall OP'due south concern is non being able to stop at all. Which is sometimes very necessary. Like right before a tire drops further into a rig toppling hole.

Avenger, you nailed it!! Thanks.

Plus, even though information technology can be sketchy to do, peradventure getting out of the vehicle (after securing the vehicle so it cannot whorl downhill) and scoping out the best line(s) for going downward the hill.

If at that place were technical sections coming upward the colina that required an optimal line, taking the best line going down the hill is even more important. Particularly if i is doing it in reverse!

And with limited visibility. Even with a spotter.

Regarding using engine braking as the primary technique, I would not exercise information technology whatsoever other way. Way too dangerous to get all the way down in neutral. Also easy for tires to lock up and then turn sideways. Scary stuff.

That's why I remember Avenger really nailed it!! Its the mid form corrections where one needs to slow down to virtually a cease (or an actual stop) that concerns me.

"the key is letting the vehicle roll instead of slide down."

Could not hold more than. No control if one is sliding. At to the lowest degree if i is rolling, fifty-fifty with also much speed, one can still steer and direct the vehicle where one wants to go and it volition go in that location. Maybe too fast for 1'southward condolement but at least it will go in the correct direction.

And most chiefly, non go sideways. Like vehicles with locked upwardly tires like to practise.

Thank you to Avenger and the other guys that suggested the Vanco hydroboosts setup. That seems to be the hot fix so will definitely go on that in mind for future apply. Would really like to have brakes that are really responsive and can do the chore. But being a newbie, unfortunately, I have a ton of other bones things that I need to get first.

Great feedback guys! Really capeesh it!!

I am open to any and all ideas in how to deal with my currently stock setup. Please keep it coming if yous accept any other thoughts.

May 28th, 2014,01:51 AM

Quote Originally Posted past Renspak View Post

Avenger, y'all nailed it!! Cheers.

Plus, fifty-fifty though it can be sketchy to do, possibly getting out of the vehicle (after securing the vehicle then it cannot roll downhill) and scoping out the best line(s) for going down the hill.

If at that place were technical sections coming up the loma that required an optimal line, taking the best line going down the hill is even more important. Especially if 1 is doing it in opposite!

And with limited visibility. Even with a spotter.

Regarding using engine braking equally the main technique, I would non do information technology whatsoever other way. Way too dangerous to become all the way down in neutral. Too easy for tires to lock up and then plough sideways. Scary stuff.

That'south why I call up Avenger really nailed information technology!! Its the mid course corrections where one needs to slow down to near a stop (or an bodily terminate) that concerns me.

"the primal is letting the vehicle roll instead of slide down."

Could not hold more. No control if one is sliding. At least if one is rolling, even with too much speed, i tin notwithstanding steer and direct the vehicle where ane wants to go and information technology volition become in that location. Possibly too fast for one's comfort merely at least information technology volition go in the right direction.

And most importantly, not get sideways. Like vehicles with locked up tires similar to practice.

Thanks to Avenger and the other guys that suggested the Vanco hydroboosts setup. That seems to be the hot gear up so will definitely proceed that in mind for futurity apply. Would really like to take brakes that are really responsive and tin can do the chore. But being a newbie, unfortunately, I have a ton of other basic things that I need to get outset.

Slap-up feedback guys! Actually appreciate it!!

I am open to any and all ideas in how to deal with my currently stock setup. Please keep it coming if you lot accept whatever other thoughts.

Agreed, fifty-fifty if you can idle downwards the colina, its of import to be able to come to a full stop. See below for my ideas, which I sort of went into before but will elaborate.

Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post

Agree, but I remember OP's concern is not being able to finish at all. Which is sometimes very necessary. Similar right before a tire drops further into a rig toppling hole.

I sympathize and agree, which is why I gave the input of trying to either tune the torque converter or the transmission itself to let things slip sooner. I realize its a fine line to tread between the Torque Converter slipping likewise easily, not hands plenty, and only right. Honestly, its astonishing to me that Jeep didn't accept this into consideration when they designed the system. Its merely silly to me that a stock vehicle with an automatic can all the same drive through its braking organization.

For those times where yous really need to just end immediately, then I would practice thinking about switching the vehicle off. In theory if the TC is still locked and the vehicle no longer has power, then yous'll just exist stopped in place. I use this all the time with my manual rig, but in the case of an automatic I would merely use information technology in an emergency. I say that considering about vehicle I know demand to be in park to restart, which means y'all'll accept to become through Neutral kickoff. Good news is you tin can set the ebrake and press hard on the restriction while y'all do information technology, which should be enough to hold you in place while yous start the rig once more.

The other way to exercise it is rig a switch similar to the "Clutch Neutral Start" switch in a lot of offroad vehicles with manuals accept that allow you to crank the starter with the vehicle in gear. I honestly don't know if it works with Automatics, but it might be worth looking into.

In reality though, y'all really should exist able to put your pes on the restriction and stop a vehicle easily with an automatic IMHO. To non be able to do so takes most of the reason for having an automated away for me.

Lastly, from a technique standpoint, practicing all of this stuff is important, and sometimes its just equally important to go on driving through that "rig toppling" pigsty rather so slamming the rig to a halt as you drib into information technology. I've seen enough of cases where stopping the vehicle actually ends upward being the thing to make it flip and had the person "powered through" they wouldn't take flipped or gotten into a hairy state of affairs. I've been there a few times myself and have pictures to prove it .

May 28th, 2014,07:45 AM

I still recall your showtime step is to make sure your braking arrangement is working correctly.

May 28th, 2014,08:09 AM

Quote Originally Posted past newracer View Post

I yet call back your first pace is to brand sure your braking organisation is working correctly.

Later on I outset bought the vehicle, I took it to Josh at Crawlertech and had them do a thorough "checking the vehicle out" from top to bottom.

I call back the guys at Crawlertech are top notch and practise high quality piece of work. And everyone else I have asked since then accept only had good things to say well-nigh Josh and his shop. Pretty impressive things said.

We never spoke much nearly brakes but he obviously drove it (with me in information technology x 2) and said there was lxxx% wear left on both front end and rear. And brakes being a safety issue, shops are usually very diligent about those kinds of things since it tin come back and bite them.

When I asked Josh about the overall status of the vehicle, he said "I would drive it". Does not get whatever better than that.

And when compared to the other posts from other Rubi owners and their similar experiences (engine pushing thru the brakes), it would seem to be a mutual thing with Rubis.

May still get it checked out further. Just non sure. Sure seems to piece of work well on the route. Patently not the aforementioned thing equally in 4 low and on a downhill and in reverse.

Great feedback. Thanks.

May 28th, 2014,08:19 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Haku View Post

Agreed, even if you lot tin idle down the hill, its of import to be able to come to a full stop. Run across beneath for my ideas, which I sort of went into before but will elaborate.

I understand and hold, which is why I gave the input of trying to either tune the torque converter or the transmission itself to let things skid sooner. I realize its a fine line to tread between the Torque Converter slipping too easily, not easily plenty, and just right. Honestly, its amazing to me that Jeep didn't take this into consideration when they designed the organisation. Its just empty-headed to me that a stock vehicle with an automated can still bulldoze through its braking system.

For those times where you really need to just stop immediately, and so I would exercise thinking about switching the vehicle off. In theory if the TC is withal locked and the vehicle no longer has power, then y'all'll just be stopped in place. I use this all the fourth dimension with my manual rig, but in the case of an automatic I would merely use it in an emergency. I say that because most vehicle I know need to be in park to restart, which means you'll accept to go through Neutral first. Good news is you tin can set up the ebrake and press hard on the brake while you do it, which should exist enough to concord yous in place while yous start the rig again.

The other fashion to do it is rig a switch similar to the "Clutch Neutral Starting time" switch in a lot of offroad vehicles with manuals accept that allow you to crank the starter with the vehicle in gear. I honestly don't know if it works with Automatics, only information technology might be worth looking into.

In reality though, you really should be able to put your foot on the brake and stop a vehicle hands with an automatic IMHO. To not be able to do so takes about of the reason for having an automatic away for me.

Lastly, from a technique standpoint, practicing all of this stuff is important, and sometimes its simply every bit important to continue driving through that "rig toppling" hole rather then slamming the rig to a halt as you drib into information technology. I've seen plenty of cases where stopping the vehicle actually ends upwards being the thing to make it flip and had the person "powered through" they wouldn't have flipped or gotten into a hairy situation. I've been there a few times myself and accept pictures to bear witness information technology .

Really good stuff. I demand to brainwash myself a little more almost torque converters before I can reply with annihilation of value.

Totally agree with the demand to sometimes "ability thru information technology". Only a really tough call to make in the oestrus of the moment. And no time to think nearly information technology. Either hit the brakes or keep going and agree on for a big ride.

Cheers for your thoughts. Lots of questions now nigh torque converters.

May 28th, 2014,11:xl AM

I agree that Crawlertech does great piece of work, they fixed my axle, merely it still wouldn't injure to alter the fluid and bleed the brakes. It might but get you the actress braking ability yous need.

I know its a different model but my wife'south JK Rubicon will not drive through the brakes.

May 28th, 2014,01:24 PM

Quote Originally Posted past newracer View Post

I concur that Crawlertech does corking work, they fixed my axle, but information technology still wouldn't hurt to change the fluid and bleed the brakes. It might just get you the extra braking ability you need.

I know its a different model but my wife'south JK Rubicon will not bulldoze through the brakes.

That'due south actually good to know about your wife's JK Rubicon.

Even before reading your most recent postal service above and thinking nearly information technology some more, I came to the determination that you are right.

Just to rule it out. First things first.

And flushing the system with new fluid would also take care of any potential air in the system.

And I just bought it so who really knows what its true history is.

And so go from there if the engine/gearing tin still push button thru the brakes.

Then great advice!! Thanks.

May 28th, 2014,02:46 PM

Quote Originally Posted by newracer View Post

I still recollect your first step is to make certain your braking arrangement is working correctly.

Quote Originally Posted by newracer View Post

I concord that Crawlertech does great work, they fixed my axle, but it notwithstanding wouldn't hurt to modify the fluid and drain the brakes. It might just get yous the extra braking power you need.

I know its a different model just my wife's JK Rubicon volition non drive through the brakes.

What newracer said.

Although anything is possible, I find it very difficult to believe that Jeep would sell a vehicle that can push through the brakes in stock form, nether nearly whatsoever circumstance.

May 28th, 2014,03:04 PM

Quote Originally Posted past scottycards View Post

What newracer said.

Although anything is possible, I find it very hard to believe that Jeep would sell a vehicle that tin push through the brakes in stock form, nether most any circumstance.

Agreed, something doesn't seem right. I can cease my 04 LJ Auto (stock brakes for now) with the 231 and KluneV both in low which is a last depression range to the tune of 10.8:1. Although most of the time I am using the gas pedal to go faster than what the Jeep will idle.

May 28th, 2014,05:22 PM

My experience is purely with Toyotas, merely sometimes information technology translates fairly well into Jeeps.

As others take said, bank check your brake system. In addition, the automatic manual may be getting the wrong cues.

A few things I would check:

1. Idle speed
ii. Throttle position sensor - correct functioning and adjustment
iii. Brake pedal switch, and corresponding circuit.
4. Manual "kick-down cable" - right adjustment

A modern computer controlled automatic manual takes cues from these things to determine how much it should be engaging. These things demand to be functioning and adjusted correctly so that your transmission knows what yous're trying to do. For me, I had problems with 1 or more of those things at one time or some other. Information technology makes crawling with the automobile tricky to say the to the lowest degree.

Again, whether or not that makes sense on a Jeep, I don't know.

Besides, I use neutral plenty. It's similar throwing in the clutch on a manual. If you lot desire to come to a complete stop on a hill, that'south only how you practice it. Information technology's like shooting fish in a barrel enough to crash-land back into gear if you need to. Mine will come to a complete stop on pretty much anything... sometimes it just takes a lot of leg power.

The first fourth dimension I drove Moab Rim with an automobile, it was pushing me down bad the whole manner because of stuff out of adjustment equally I listed higher up. It was much easier to just do the whole matter in neutral. I just did it last week with everything in adjustment. I could take stayed in drive all the manner down, but occasionally bumped into neutral while waiting for others to descend in order to give my leg a little rest.

May 31st, 2014,02:51 AM

However program to get my brakes checked out but had an interesting affair happen today while practicing and trying out some of the ideas of the many experienced posters. Went upwards to my local mountains that I know well from my dirt biking days

Moderate steepness hills (rating 4 -5)(moderate "blue")(so steep plenty but still safe)

Hill #one - Trail covered with moist dirt - smooth
Traction - excellent

Loma #2 - Trail covered with loose and "planted" rocks – 6 to 9 inches in size - covering about fourscore-90% of trail
Traction = fair - due to loose rocks and some moisture in surrounding dirt - only not bad

i. Going Forrad Down Hill – 1st gear – 4 depression – rear lockers engaged - to establish a baseline if yous will

I WAS ABLE to make the vehicle come to a Complete STOP with fairly significant amount of restriction pressure level while on the steepest part of the hill!

I was totally surprised by this – not sure if I had tried this before.

2. Backwards – Reverse – 4 low – rear lockers engaged
I WAS UNABLE to brand vehicle come to a Complete Finish with VERY significant amount of restriction pressure while on the steepest part of hill

Seems odd that in 1st gear, I could make vehicle come up to a stop but NOT in reverse!

I would think if it was merely the gearing that was causing the vehicle to "bulldoze thru the brakes", that 1st gear, being geared lower (lower mph) than reverse, it would "drive thru the brakes" easier than reverse.

Yet I WAS ABLE to brand it come to a complete finish while in 1st and going downwards the hill (forwards).

And however in contrary and bankroll down the hill, I was NOT able to make the vehicle come to complete stop.

As someone else mentioned, my tranny, the 42RLE, has a 1st gear ratio of 2.84:ane and reverse is ii.21:1. To put things into perspective, my 2nd gear is one.57:ane.

And so reverse is not equal to 1st. And is about ane/2 mode to 2nd.

So I am thinking that since they all share the same 4:1 transfer instance gearing (ruling that out), that the difference has to be in the transmission gearing. And that maybe what is really happening is that the pull of the downhill is actually being amplified by reverse existence allowed to "freewheel" (I know that is the incorrect term but am at a loss of how else to describe information technology)(more mph in reverse than 1st), and therefore the vehicle "drives thru the brakes" due to the higher mph.

(Funny, never heard the term "drives or pushes thru the brakes" until a few days agone. Since many offroad people seem to know and utilize that phase, I approximate it must exist somewhat common affair in 4 wheeling?)

Also, as another experiment, on the smooth downhill, when I was about 1/4 of way from the bottom, I allow the vehicle, (while in reverse, 4 depression, lockers engaged), idle downwardly the balance of the hill (staying off the brakes). Well, it went pretty darn fast. It was OK considering I was well-nigh the bottom but fast enough to make me uncomfortable.

And what I can also say is I would Not have wanted to idle downwards that same hill (like I did the last 1/iv of the loma - instance from above) from NEAR THE TOP! That would have been scary. Of course, I would have been concerned about getting out shape and turning sideways.

Hopefully, that gives an thought of the gearing and therefore mph of contrary.

Its likewise interesting that a lot of the guys that said they had the same experience I did, too had Rubicons. Makes me wonder what gear ratios that non-rubicon owners take for their reverse who had the same experience I had?

So what practise you guys think? This was a complete surprise to me.

PS: Tried a lot of other things besides that people mentioned and had some other interesting results. Will post them presently.

May 31st, 2014,04:06 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Quick Depict View Post

My experience is purely with Toyotas, but sometimes it translates fairly well into Jeeps.

As others take said, check your restriction system. In addition, the automatic manual may be getting the incorrect cues.

A few things I would check:

i. Idle speed
2. Throttle position sensor - correct operation and aligning
three. Brake pedal switch, and respective excursion.
4. Manual "kick-down cable" - correct aligning

A modern computer controlled automatic transmission takes cues from these things to determine how much it should be engaging. These things demand to be functioning and adjusted correctly so that your transmission knows what you lot're trying to do. For me, I had bug with 1 or more of those things at once or some other. It makes crawling with the car tricky to say the least.

Once again, whether or not that makes sense on a Jeep, I don't know.

Also, I utilize neutral enough. It'due south similar throwing in the clutch on a manual. If you desire to come to a complete finish on a loma, that's simply how y'all do it. It's like shooting fish in a barrel enough to bump back into gear if you demand to. Mine will come to a complete end on pretty much annihilation... sometimes it just takes a lot of leg power.

The offset fourth dimension I drove Moab Rim with an auto, it was pushing me downwardly bad the whole way because of stuff out of adjustment as I listed higher up. Information technology was much easier to just do the whole matter in neutral. I only did it last calendar week with everything in aligning. I could have stayed in bulldoze all the way down, just occasionally bumped into neutral while waiting for others to descend in gild to give my leg a niggling residuum.

Actually good stuff that I am pretty ignorant most. I will take to keep these pearls in mind for sure. Still trying to effigy out if something is not operating right or the limits of the vehicle or me being a newbie.

Cheers a lot.

May 31st, 2014,04:29 AM

Hey newracer,

If the opportunity e'er presents itself, maybe you could try out your wife'south JK Rubicon similar I mentioned in my recent post?

Just mellow stuff.

If not, no biggie. Only thought I would throw it out there. :-)

You seem like y'all are pretty experienced and way more knowledgable than me.

Just that some of this stuff does not really make sense to me.

Anyways, thanks for all your assistance.

May 31st, 2014,06:54 AM

Pull the rear pads and inspect/measure.

May 31st, 2014,09:32 AM

Just had them checked at Crawlertech and they said in that location was 80% wearable left on the front and rear pads. Probably not inspected though.

From ff33:
"My 06 Rubicon is the same way and my technique is what you described. I but permit information technology push through the brakes and when it'southward fourth dimension to stop pop in neutral existent quick and and so dorsum to bulldoze.

Information technology does this w/ blackness magic pads in the forepart and EBC yellows in the rear so I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to upgrade your pads."

The affair is they are strong enough to stop the vehicle going forward down the hill in four low and 1st.

Notwithstanding I am going to take my brakes checked out again anyhow merely to be certain. Merely have not gotten at that place nevertheless. Seems like everything is pointing to the rear brakes and perhaps air in the lines. Or pads like you said.

Out of marvel, do you accept stock brakes on your jeep? Can you lot stop your jeep completely when bankroll downwardly a hill in 4 low and reverse?

Thanks for the feedback.

May 31st, 2014,xi:46 AM

Quote Originally Posted by Renspak View Post

Hey newracer,

If the opportunity always presents itself, maybe you could endeavor out your married woman's JK Rubicon like I mentioned in my contempo mail service?

But mellow stuff.

If not, no biggie. Simply idea I would throw it out at that place. :-)

You lot seem similar you lot are pretty experienced and mode more knowledgable than me.

Simply that some of this stuff does not really make sense to me.

Anyways, thanks for all your help.

The next chance I get I will see if I tin can come to a complete stop going backwards down a loma in 4 low. I honestly practise not know if I accept ever needed to. I practise know that it volition finish going forward downwardly a colina in 4 depression.

May 31st, 2014,11:48 AM

If you are going to bleed the brakes get some speed bleeders, they brand the task simple.

May 31st, 2014,12:51 PM

Hey nifty stuff newracer! Thanks, peculiarly for the moving-picture show.

But FYI. The angle of the loma of your picture show is pretty close to both of the ones I did yesterday. Yours might exist a little steeper but not past much. Did both hills forwards and backwards. And both were probably about 30 yards long.

I will have to expect into the speed bleeders. Never heard of them. and so cheers....but checked them out. Looks awesome. Cooked my rear brake on my dirt bike last yr and have been needing to change out the fluid e'er since....Then I bough my jeep. And the motorbike has stayed in the garage ever since. LOL

So great!! I can do my wheel as well! Thanks again!

June 1st, 2014,06:23 AM

Quote Originally Posted by ff33 View Post

I just allow information technology push button through the brakes and when information technology'southward time to cease popular in neutral real quick and then back to drive.

Do yous hateful "back to opposite"?

June 2nd, 2014,10:44 AM

Quote Originally Posted past Quick Draw View Post

As well, I use neutral enough. Information technology'south like throwing in the clutch on a manual. If you want to come to a complete stop on a hill, that's only how y'all do it. It's easy enough to bump back into gear if yous need to. Mine will come to a complete stop on pretty much anything... sometimes information technology simply takes a lot of leg ability.

The first fourth dimension I collection Moab Rim with an auto, it was pushing me downwards bad the whole style because of stuff out of adjustment equally I listed in a higher place. Information technology was much easier to simply practice the whole affair in neutral. I only did it last week with everything in aligning. I could have stayed in drive all the mode down, just occasionally bumped into neutral while waiting for others to descend in order to give my leg a niggling rest.

Dandy stuff. Thanks.

Sounds similar your rig is geared pretty low so who knows. But take yous or tin can you make your rig come to a complete finish going backwards downwards a moderate (or steep?) colina in four low while in reverse?

Merely asking.

What kind of brakes practise you lot accept?

June 4th, 2014,08:03 PM

Quote Originally Posted by Renspak View Post

Bang-up stuff. Thanks.

Sounds like your rig is geared pretty depression so who knows. Simply accept you or can you make your rig come to a consummate terminate going backwards down a moderate (or steep?) hill in iv low while in reverse?

Just asking.

What kind of brakes do you take?

Well I don't know that it will help you much because my setup is nothing similar a typical Jeep build, simply: My brakes are stock, with the rear proportioning valve removed. Otherwise they are zip special at all. My clamber ratio is about 78:1. With both transfer cases in low, it's equivalent to a 5.2:1 t-instance, and I accept five.29:one in the axles. Yes, I can stop going backwards on a near vertical ledge while in reverse. I did it multiple times out in Moab.

Once again, information technology takes a skilful bit of leg power, but it volition stop.

June quaternary, 2014,08:49 PM

I dont know if its been mentioned but are the torque converters locked or unlocked when in opposite. A declining tc could crusade a like trouble.

June 5th, 2014,03:40 PM

Torque converters simply lock in forward gears and so (typically) merely above 30mph.

June 6th, 2014,12:22 PM

Thanks Digger. Did not know that.

How and what exercise torque convertors lock onto?

Centrifigal force at a certain RPM pushes ???? outward? and causes the torque convertor to lock onto the flywheel? Taking the hydraulic force per unit area issue out of the equation. At present information technology is mechanically locked. Right?

How or when does it know to unlock?

I've read a chip merely all the same not certain.

Cause it does feel similar it is locking at the first chance it gets. And and then does not want to unlock at slower speeds. And it so feels like I am holding back (with lots of foot pedal pressure) a potential delinquent freight train.

just took my jeep into the local jeep 4x4 specialist with a pretty practiced rep locally and he says this is the norm for Rubicons. I am still having him check the brakes and torque convertor though.

June 6th, 2014,12:38 PM

The locking is within the torque convertor itself. It is physically bolted to the flexplate (manual transmissions use a flywheel), so it's e'er engaged with a mechanical connection there.

How To Reverse Down A Hill

Backing down a somewhat steep hill in reverse with an automatic transmission

Backing Down Hills

0 Response to "How To Reverse Down A Hill"

Post a Comment

Iklan Atas Artikel

Iklan Tengah Artikel 1

Iklan Tengah Artikel 2

Iklan Bawah Artikel